Q-and-A with Craig Newmark: The craigslist founder on the power of Twitter and the next big thing in social media

September 29, 2008

Copyright © 2008 PRSA. All rights reserved.

By Amy Jacques

Internet vanguard Craig Newmark revolutionized the way people use social media and networking. In 1995, he founded craigslist, which originally started as an e-mail list about events in San Francisco. Now, craigslist.org is the 11th most visited Web site in the United States according to Alexa: The Web Information Company, and is currently quoting 50 million unique visitors and about 12 billion page views per month. The free, uncensored community bulletin board-type site is a place for people to connect and exchange goods and services. Craigslist also has expanded from the immediate Bay Area to 567 cities and 55 countries without any help from advertisers.

On a press trip to the East Coast last week, the affable and witty Newmark, along with Mike Smith, CEO of MSBD, the agency of record for Newmark’s personal public affairs outreach efforts, met with Tactics and the Strategist Online at a Starbucks in Midtown Manhattan. A keynote speaker at the upcoming 2008 PRSA International Conference in Detroit, Newmark discussed how to adapt in the emergent world of social media, why PR professionals should use Twitter, and what device will next transform the Web of our lives.

How has social media evolved since you founded craigslist in 1995 — what are some of the most significant changes that you’ve seen?

[The changes] all have to do with connecting people — connecting people online in manners that reflect how they connect in real life, but with larger scale and among the young, with some changes in attitude. For example, the youngsters are connecting all the time with messaging. So they are much more used to peer-to-peer communication on a continuous basis, possibly using them for social change. And also they are so used to using tools like Facebook that they take it for granted and use it to communicate in a day-to-day so much that their concept of privacy has changed. There is a big change coming among the so-called millennials whether you draw the line at 24 or 30 — they’re used to using electronic communication and the more immediate, imminent forms like e-mail messaging and Twitter — e-mail is for the old as many of them see it — and I’ll add that while I Twitter, I don’t message.  I do Twitter [under the handle @craignewmark], but I don’t talk about craigslist.

What are your plans for expansion and establishing a presence in even more countries overseas? Where do you see craigslist in 5-10 years?

We’re interested in wherever we’re welcome and we do need to support more languages. We do have this fundamental philosophy of doing well by doing good — and it’s working. It’s also just plain satisfying — that you do the right thing and sometimes that works to your benefit in unexpected ways, and I don’t mind that at all.

What do you envision for the future of social media and networking (the online community and commerce)?  Any trends you think will catch on?

In a way it’s the youngsters who will dictate — and I want them to stay off my lawn – and that is on the record. They’re telling us what the future trends will be and a lot of it has to do with the increasing use of social media to do more or less everything. And that will be how people will build their reputations and that will be how the business communications and so on of the future is beginning to work already.

Right now, traditional PR comes from the top down and people still send out press releases — those aren’t changing — and right now in fact, a traditional press release is more likely to damage you in the new community than before. So, the focus will be on your reputation and how much you engage using the new technologies will be more important than the traditional approach and trying to do things top-down and sending out press releases. The new form will be brief, to the point messages without noise.

Also the model of news is in part [Stephen] Colbert and [Jon] Stewart who are the most trusted names in news. But the deal is that basically they tell people the truth and fact checking is becoming a bigger deal — just one’s sense of what’s true and what one’s peers say. So, PR people, viral marketing, direct engagement of people: these are the ways to communicate. And it’s bottoms up and it’s generally democratic and if you don’t operate that way then you are kind of screwed.

There’s a window of opportunity right now for people of all ages to learn that technology and to get engaged and to build a reputation online. I’m guessing that pretty much any PR person who’s on the front lines, who’s engaged, needs to be blogging and using Twitter, and beyond that they have to become comfortable with messaging and Facebook or an equivalent — because Facebook is more social, LinkedIn is more business, and other ones are coming online — I’d say right now the idea is to get comfortable now and build a reputation starting now.

How important is it for that same group to use Web 2.0 applications like Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, YouTube and FriendFeed?

You need to become successful using those technologies or possibly – that may be a survival requirement in the future. On the other hand, you may not need to know how to use the technology to build a message or a brand, but my instincts tell me that to do that with this new media, you have to be intimate with new media. So, I suspect that you may be putting an expiration date on yourself without intimacy with new media.

In that same vein, Web 2.0 presents challenges for PR professionals. Just as we were talking about, the traditional story pitch doesn't work as well anymore — often there is not even someone to pitch to and there are less face-to-face conversations.  So how do you recommend that those PR professionals adjust to the Web 2.0 world and kind of position themselves and their clients to have their stories and message “go viral?”

The hardest part is what’s called, in my business, an elevator speech. You have to be able to get your idea across cogently and briefly. Forget about attachments or PowerPoint presentations. Those will be more likely to hurt you than help you. And we still get them. People may want to read how Jeff Jarvis reacts or Mike Arrington. While we’re all old guys, we are digital immigrants, more or less, and comfortable with the new technology, with the exception of the way kids message. The kids who are sometimes called digital natives, they will be more demanding, but how that plays out in terms of the difference between comfort with the slower forms of digital media like Facebook and blogging — I don’t know how much we have to go to the faster forms like messaging. I’m hoping that I just have to go no further than Twitter.

Is there a concern though for losing that personal touch and face-to-face encounters? Is that transition something PR professionals should be worried about?

The electronic communication technologies compliment real life. They are no substitute. But face-to-face doesn’t scale. You need to remember that: face-to-face doesn’t scale… I should Twitter that. Even as a note to myself.

What other applications do you use regularly besides Twitter?

I do a little Facebook, I blog — I have my own blog at Huffington Post. And I do use a blog reader, so I track a number of blogs.

Do you use FriendFeed or anything that streamlines the applications like that?

I do use FriendFeed, but I don’t have a good enough sense of it yet, just through time limitations. In a way, by the time I’ve done customer service and everything else, at some point I just want to sit in front of the TV. Something I realized this morning, is another phrase for what I do for craigslist and beyond — because a lot of the stuff I talk about, like helping other people, is beyond craigslist. I realized what I’ve been doing for 13 years: I’m a community organizer. And that’s one of the genuine expressions of democracy. I know there are people who oppose that, but that’s my life.

What site or device do you think will next revolutionize the Web of our lives?

I think mobile devices are going to be the dominant communication tools. Yeah, and I’ve got to get better at it myself.

As far as text messaging, you mean?

Twitter may be all I need. But the ideal is that we carry around with us all the time — our phones. They’ll get increasingly smart. And when walking around Manhattan, which I like to do while I’m here, I carry a notebook and a cellular modem because even again, when I’m traveling, it’s tough to keep up with customer service. When I’m traveling, I’ll do it in short, intense bursts.

Your model of modesty and community service defined a new brand of online communication. What tips do you have for PR professionals who may be able to do the same?

I don’t view myself as modest or altruistic or anything. I just view myself as treating people like I want to be treated and pushing that pretty hard. It’s not just the platitude, but a statement about everyday life.

Maybe a more simplistic viewpoint rather than modest?

It’s just real — just genuine. And that’s the message for the PR people. No one resents a PR person that’s just being honest and doing a job. It’s when people make a profession and passion of deception — that’s resented. And the deal is that people resent very little of what PR people do, but my gut tells me that the actions of a few bad actors hurt everyone and that’s not fair. That’s true of lobbyists also. You get a few really bad actors in the profession and that hurts everyone and that’s not fair. I’ve actually spoken up against that, because again fairness is big and again, you want to treat people how you want to be treated and that extends to everyone.

What do you think it takes to form a trustworthy online community — and what have been some of the bumps along the road for craigslist?

Building a trustworthy community starts with being trustworthy and a commitment to shared values. Specifically, a universal value seems to be "treat people like you want to be treated," but the hard part about that is following through with that, every day. It's common to see shared values and good customer service given lip value, much less common to see the follow through. Continuous engagement is key, which is one reason I'm a customer service rep and kind of a community organizer.

You have referred to craigslist as a little more of a Web 1.0 application rather than 2.0. Can you expound on that? And are there any plans to update the GUI or the look of the site?

Speaking as a nerd, we use the simplest possible technologies, at least as you can see as a user of the site. Underneath, there is a lot of sophisticated stuff, but we try to be as straightforward as we can. So, there’s very little JavaScript and that kind of thing that characterizes Web 2.0. Simple is good. Fast is good.

What was your vision at the inception of craigslist and did you see it turning into the successful site that it is today?

I had no vision at all. Almost all of craigslist is based on feedback from the community. Like the categories you see, almost all of them are explicitly what people suggested — one exception is childcare. Jim and I were thinking, single moms don’t get a break, so we can help parents of all sorts with babysitters. Common sense. No one, I think, articulated that precisely to us. On the other hand, it was an implicit need, almost thoughtless. But again, I had no vision. I’m more of a couch potato than a visionary.

I think people in the PR profession may be interested in your decision to step out of the CEO role and into the customer service sector full time — as far as career moves. Can you talk about that a little more?

People helped me realized that my skills as a manager are limited and Jim came around at the time and he’s much better. So, I’m lucky that he came around because he’s very good in those areas where I’m weakest. Sometimes letting go is painful, but fortunately, I did the right thing because he’s done a much better job than I, particularly in some painful areas.

Along with the decline of print journalism, do you see craigslist playing an increasing role in people’s lives? And have you already seen changes?

The feedback has been so overwhelming over the years — how we do help people help each other out in big ways. We’re just a platform. People use us to help themselves, to help others… And that ain’t bad. People really do like helping each other out.

Amy Jacques is the associate editor of Tactics and The Strategist Online. E-mail: amy.jacques@prsa.org.

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